Why ‘The Stages of Grief’ Are a Myth—And What Really Helps With Emma Payne

This week’s episode of the Modrn Wellness Podcast was one of the most personal conversations I’ve ever had. 

I sat down with Emma Payne, founder of Help Texts, who combines her personal grief journey with 25 years in tech to provide practical grief support delivered straight to people’s phones.

The episode felt deeply personal because we shared something in common: both of us have had partners die at a young age. My former partner, Ian, died of an overdose at age 33. Emma’s late husband, Barry, died by suicide at the same age. What unfolded was an honest, raw conversation about grief: what helped us, what didn’t, and how we can all better support one another through the death of a loved one.

The Power of Saying a Name

One of the most moving moments early in our conversation was when Emma reminded me of the first thing she asked when I shared that I had lost Ian:

“What was his name?”

It stopped me in my tracks. No one had asked me that right away before. It felt so meaningful to say his name out loud and have him acknowledged as someone I loved deeply.

Emma explained why this matters:

“Friends and family do want to help. They just don’t know how… And in our society, we’ve swung too far the other way— don't mention it, don't bring him up. That might really upset Mary, but actually you're already upset, right? You're already grieving and having a chance to make him real, and bring him into the conversation is actually, a real gift. I've yet to hear anybody that says otherwise. ”

This small, simple question: What was their name? - can change everything.

The 5 stages of grief are not real

We also debunked one of the most common myths about grief: the so-called “five stages.”

Emma shared:

“There are no stages of grief. Elizabeth Kübler-Ross was writing about people who were dying, not the bereaved. But somehow it caught on.”

Grievers beat themselves up, thinking they’re not grieving correctly or quickly enough. That’s harmful. Grief isn’t  made up of linear stages that you graduate from and move on from. It comes in waves and can resurface at the strangest, most unexpected moments and that is ok. 

“Grief is a normal natural response to a human experience” 

Instead, Emma explained the Four Tasks of Mourning, a model that resonates more:

1. Accept the reality of the loss

2. Process the pain (in whatever way works for you—running, journaling, therapy, or screaming into the wind)

3. Adapt to a new reality

4. Find an enduring connection with the deceased

That last piece is often misunderstood. Continuing bonds, whether through rituals, keepsakes, or simply speaking their name, can actually strengthen our resilience.

The Physical Toll of Grief

Grief doesn’t just affect the mind; it has measurable impacts on health.

I shared a striking statistic from JAMA:

• In the first month after a spouse’s death, the surviving spouse is twice as likely to suffer from a heart attack or stroke compared to someone who partner has not recently died.

Emma added more:

• Recently widowed people have a 41% higher risk of mortality in the first six months.

• Bereavement is linked with increased risk of type 2 diabetes, inflammation, and even cancer.

• One in four youth suicides are preceded by the recent loss of a loved one.

These numbers are staggering. As Emma put it:

“We have a public health crisis in grief. And yet, most people don’t receive meaningful support.”

How to Actually Support Someone Who’s Grieving

So what do you say? What do you do? Emma and I shared some lessons we’ve learned, both from lived experience and from her work with Help Texts:

• Ask their name. “What was her name? Tell me about him/her.”

• Be concrete. Instead of saying let me know how I can help, try: I’ll bring your garbage bins out every Tuesday until you tell me otherwise.

• Keep inviting them to things. Don’t take it personally if they don’t come. The invitation itself matters.

• Sit with them. Sometimes presence—not advice—is what helps most.

• Avoid “should” and “still.” Don’t say, You should be moving on or Are you still feeling this way? Their loved one has died. There is no timeline.

• Use clear language. Say died, not lost or passed away. Euphemisms don’t do the reality justice.

• You don't need to make them feel better. Emma reminded us that showing up isn’t about making someone feel better: “Remove the idea entirely that your job is to cheer them up. That’s impossible. Just be there.”

My Biggest Takeaway

Talking with Emma reminded me that grief is universal—we will all experience it if we live long enough. And because of that, learning how to show up for others is also practice for when it’s our turn.

I left our conversation with a renewed commitment to ask the harder, more human questions. To say names out loud. To let grief be what it is.

As Emma said beautifully:

“Grief has made me stronger and softer. I wouldn’t trade my grief experience, it’s made my life richer in every way.”

Resources

Emma founded Help Texts, the first company to publish data on grief-informed texting. Subscribers receive a year of tailored, expert-backed messages based on their loss. Families and friends can also receive nudges on how to show up for their grieving loved one.

You can learn more or gift a subscription at helptexts.com/drmary. If this blog resonates, please share it. You never know who in your community is grieving quietly and could use a little more connection.

For more evidence-based health insights subscribe to the Modrn Wellness podcast and follow @dr.marypardee on Instagram.

Find out more about HelpTexts

Website: https://helptexts.com/drmary

Instagram-https://www.instagram.com/help.texts/

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